Child Psych Podcast Episode #116: Helping a Scared Child Try New Things

First time jitters are normal, but when they turn into tears and outright refusal, the world shrinks in problematic ways. In this podcast Tammy interviews Dr. Dawn Huebner, a Clinical Psychologist and Parent Coach specializing in childhood anxiety. Dawn will walk you though teaching children to manage uncertainty about new experiences. This podcast is based on her children’s book: “Facing Mighty Fears About Trying New Things“

 

[Tammy Schamuhn] Hello everyone, and welcome to the Child Psych Podcast. My name is Tammy, and I’m a registered child psychologist. I’m the co-founder of the Institute of Child Psychology, and I’m also a mom to three amazing kids. And today we have with us Dr. Dawn Huebner. Thank you so much, Dawn, for taking the time to meet with us today.

[Dr. Dawn Huebner] My pleasure.

[Tammy] Yeah, today we’re going to be talking about all things anxiety and trying new approaches for kids, and I’m really excited about this. Anxiety is one of my areas of specialty, and I’m always on the lookout for new tools. I also have to take a moment to fangirl because your book, What to Do When You Worry Too Much, was one of the first books I ever used in play therapy with kids when I began my clinical practice. So, it’s really come full circle to be interviewing you—the author of that book!

[Dr. Dawn] That book was recently released in a second edition. It’s 20 years old now, so it was due for some updates. The second edition is now available, and while it’s substantively different from the first, it retains a similar form, tone, and overall style.

[Tammy] Well, your books are just amazing for kids. For any of you who are teachers, parents, or therapists—especially as a therapist—I found it to be such a lovely book to introduce the topic of anxiety to kids. I just want to thank you for that because I’ve read that book to hundreds of kids in therapy, just so you know. Let’s talk a little bit about Dr. Dawn Huebner, and then we’ll jump into the topic of anxious kids who struggle with trying new things. We’re just going to call you Dr. Dawn. Dr. Dawn is a psychologist, parent coach, and author of numerous self-help books for children, including What to Do When You Worry Too Much and many others. Today, we’ll be discussing her book Facing Mighty Fears About Trying New Things, which I recently read and am super excited about. It’s now proudly placed in the playroom at my office. Dr. Huebner’s work is recognized worldwide, with her books translated into 23 languages. She has been featured on The Today Show, WebMD, Parents Magazine, and numerous other news and information outlets. As a parent of a once-anxious child, Dr. Huebner has faced anxiety in her own life and acknowledges making the same mistakes many parents make before discovering the keys to helping both herself and her child break free. As a recovering anxious child myself, I deeply appreciate any work in this realm. Now, let’s dive into a question submitted by one of our viewers, and then I’ll jump into my own questions. I’m really excited to discuss your book and hope that every parent of an anxious child or therapist grabs a copy because it’s so beautifully written. We’ll also talk about the tools included in it.

Here’s the question:

“I have a little guy who is terrified to try anything new. He protests, cries, and melts down if we insist, and he loses sleep worrying about all the things that could go wrong. My son loves to swim, so we signed him up for a swim club. He seemed okay when we told him, but as the first day approached, his fear mounted. He came up with loads of excuses: he doesn’t like swimming, he only likes swimming for fun, the coach is mean, he might not know anyone. Basically, anything and everything that could go wrong. We’ve tried reasoning with him, bribing him, and dragging him in, but none of it feels good for us or for him. Nothing we do seems to make things easier the next time something new comes up. And of course, once he gets started, he’s usually fine, but the lead-up is miserable for everyone.”

I was one of those kids, and I know my parents didn’t handle it well. So, Dr. Dawn, let’s talk about better ways to handle this.

[Dr. Dawn] First, I want to normalize doing the “wrong” thing. Parents often either accommodate fears like this or try to force their child to face them. These are two ends of a spectrum, neither of which is particularly helpful, but both come from a place of love and good intentions. It’s important to acknowledge that, whatever parents are doing, they’re trying their best to help their child. Parents should be honored for their efforts. That said, there are more effective strategies for parents to use, and that’s what we’ll dive into. What this child is struggling with is very common: a fear of trying something new. This fear comes from a part of the brain that’s deeply embedded and highly attuned to recognizing unfamiliar things as potentially dangerous. This response developed for evolutionary reasons—being cautious of the unfamiliar could protect us from danger. Within our brains, the concept of “new” sometimes gets equated with “dangerous.” When we approach something new, the brain’s danger alarms can go off. If we haven’t been taught about this response or given strategies to handle it, we assume those alarm bells are providing valid, useful information, leading us to avoid what seems scary or potentially harmful. This reaction makes perfect sense, and it’s likely part of what’s happening with the child in this scenario.

Understanding the Brain’s Response to Novelty

[Tammy] Yes, the brain pays attention to things that are novel as well. Anything new prompts the brain to think, Is there something here that could potentially be life-threatening since this isn’t something I normally encounter? I think it’s so important for parents to understand that this part of the brain is very old. It has been developing for much longer than the executive functioning areas, like the prefrontal cortex and the cortical brain. As a result, it’s deeply ingrained and well-established.

[Dr. Dawn] It is, exactly. And it’s an automatic response—something we don’t have conscious control over. It exists for a good reason, right? We need our brain to alert us when something is unfamiliar so that we become more aware. However, being aware is different from being reflexively avoidant, like deciding, I’m not going to do that thing because it’s new. The first step we can take is to teach our children about how their brain works. This can be done with kids as young as five or six years old. We can explain: “You have a part of your brain that’s there to keep you safe, and that part sets off an alarm when you’re about to do something new. That alarm is there to get your attention, and that’s a good thing. Everyone has that part of their brain, and it’s there for an important reason. But just because the alarm goes off doesn’t mean there’s a problem or that you’re in danger. New is different from dangerous.” The first step is teaching kids to ask what I call the magic question. When they’re feeling nervous in a new situation, they should ask themselves: “Am I nervous because this is dangerous, or am I nervous because this is new?” This is a crucial question for children to learn to ask themselves.

Using Creative Metaphors to Help Kids Understand Anxiety

[Tammy] Yeah, I love how, in your book, you refer to the amygdala like that. I know you referenced a smoke detector in another podcast we did with you and Tanya, using the analogy of asking, Is it a fire, or is it burnt toast? In your book about the fear of trying new things, you describe it as a “brain magnifier,” which is such a fresh and creative way to explain it. I’ve never used that specific language with kids before, but it’s so relatable—it helps them understand how their brain can blow things up to get their attention. It’s another great metaphor we can share with kids, like imagining a magnifying glass that makes everything seem so much bigger than it actually is. It’s a wonderful tool for helping them make sense of their experiences.

[Dr. Dawn] Yeah, and it’s really useful to teach children about the way their brain works in a normalizing way. Often, kids who struggle with anxiety feel ashamed. They feel like there’s something wrong with them because they recognize that they have a harder time doing things than their peers—that they feel afraid when others don’t. Helping kids understand what’s happening in their brain, and that it’s normal and serves a good purpose, can be incredibly helpful. We also want to teach kids that their brain sometimes makes mistakes or focuses on the wrong thing—something that isn’t actually dangerous. These are false alarms, and it’s important to teach kids how to distinguish between real dangers and these false-alarm fears.

[Tammy] And that’s where I like your metaphor with burnt toast. I know Tania uses that with her daughter, and it works really well. She has a highly sensitive daughter who gets really worked up about things, and they’ve talked about it like this: when you burn food in the house, the fire alarm goes off. That doesn’t mean the house is actually on fire, but the alarm is trying to keep everyone safe, just in case, right? It’s just in case. And it’s almost like the amygdala makes these mistakes because it’s playing it safe.

[Dr. Dawn] Right, exactly.

[Tammy] Okay, beautiful. So, the first step is that magic question: Is it because it’s dangerous, or because it’s new? That’s the first step, and the book beautifully illustrates this. What’s the second step here?

[Dr. Dawn] The second step is to focus on the facts. When we start to feel nervous, we often get flooded with “what if” scenarios. In the example you gave, the child was thinking, “What if the coach is mean? What if I don’t like it? What if I’m not good at it? What if I need you?” These “what if” questions make it tempting to avoid or withdraw from the situation. Instead, kids can be taught to focus on the facts. In the case of the child in the example, the facts might be: You love swimming, you’ve been to this pool before (if that’s true), the teacher is knowledgeable and kind, they will take things one step at a time, and you are capable of handling this. By discussing the facts, you can use them to help mitigate fears. Anxious children often struggle with uncertainty and may respond with questions like, “Are you sure?” or “What if the bad thing does happen?” You can teach kids to recognize the difference between something being possible and something being probable. For example, explain that while something might be possible, it’s unlikely to happen. Additionally, you can help children understand the concept of being “sure enough.” Being “sure enough” means having enough certainty to move forward, even if you can’t be absolutely sure. This approach encourages them to tolerate a little uncertainty while still feeling empowered to face new situations.

[Tammy] Yeah, I use that with teens all the time, especially with teens and tweens. I talk to them about the difference between probability and possibility. For example, we discuss scenarios like, “What if you got struck by lightning today?” or “What if you were in a car crash?” Just because something might happen, does that mean we should stay in our rooms and hide under the blankets? They usually laugh, especially if you say it with a sense of humor. But the point is, while scary things can happen, if we don’t go out into the world, we miss out on joy, friendship, and so many wonderful experiences. I also like to ask, “Can you think of a time when something seemed scary? When you thought, ‘What if that bad thing happens?’ but you found your bravery and did it anyway—and something good happened as a result?” It’s a great way to help them reflect on their own courage and realize that taking risks often leads to positive outcomes. Would you agree with that approach?

[Dr. Dawn] That’s really important to do to help kids to access bravery and being brave as you know does not mean not feeling afraid. Being brave means feeling afraid, and deciding you’re going to do something anyway. Right. 

[Tammy] Kids don’t understand that. They assume if someone’s brave, they’re fearless.

[Dr. Dawn] Parents sometimes make the mistake of trying to shield their child from fear, but it’s actually fine to feel afraid. Children gain the most when they experience fear and move forward anyway. Our job as parents, therapists, and teachers is to break challenges down into small steps, making it possible for kids to access their bravery and engage with a situation. It’s not an all-or-nothing proposition. We want kids to learn how to take small steps.

Building Confidence in Children: Balancing Small Steps and Sequential Progress

[Tammy] That’s your third step, which is practice before being brave. It’s like scaffolding a skill. You take tiny steps. I remember that for a long time in psychology, we thought flooding was the answer—just put someone in the deep end and let them learn that it won’t hurt them. For example, if someone is scared of snakes, we used to think putting them in a snake pit would help. You’d see challenges like that on TV and think, ‘Are you kidding?

[Dr. Dawn] Right. Right. Yes. And so, we don’t do that anymore. We don’t use the flooding approach; instead, we do small steps. It’s like walking up a staircase or a ladder. We’re trying to find small things that children can do that are just outside their comfort zone. I talk about the comfort zone versus the growth zone. The comfort zone is a place where the child feels perfectly comfortable doing something, and we want kids to learn to step just beyond that. The goal with these challenges, which are in the growth zone, just a step beyond the comfort zone, is to make them relatively small but frequent. Frequent practice is really important. So, if we’re trying to help kids practice being brave by doing new things, we want them to experiment with doing new things pretty much every day. It doesn’t really matter what the new thing is. Even if your ultimate concern is that you want your child to be able to do something like go to swim lessons or soccer practice or whatever without a meltdown, you can still help them practice doing other kinds of new things—trying a new food, initiating with a friend, talking to a grandparent on the phone if that’s something they’ve never done, or wearing something different than they’ve worn before. There are all kinds of new things they can try. Even though these things may seem unrelated to going to swim lessons, they actually do help because what kids are learning is how to experience that apprehensive, uneasy feeling and move into the situation anyway, realizing that things work out okay. That’s what you’re giving your child practice with.

[Tammy] Yes, that makes perfect sense. In this approach, both directions can be effective, depending on the child and the situation. You can start by trying small new things that are not directly related to the ultimate goal, like the examples you mentioned—trying new foods or initiating a conversation with a friend. These help the child practice getting comfortable with discomfort and building bravery in general. However, you can also take more sequential steps toward the specific goal of swimming lessons. For example, walking around the pool without getting in can be a good first step if the child is anxious about the location. It allows them to gradually familiarize themselves with the environment without the pressure of actually swimming. Alternatively, going for a swim as a family in the same space where the lesson will take place is a more direct, sequential approach that helps bridge the gap between their current comfort zone and the future experience. Ultimately, both methods have their place. Small, unrelated steps help build resilience in general, while more sequential steps can build confidence specific to the goal. It’s about finding the balance that works best for the child.

[Dr. Dawn] I think what’s most helpful is to do both of those things. You might take the specific goal of getting your child comfortable with swim lessons and think of what logical sequential steps lead up to that, then start doing those things. At the same time, think of other ways to have your child practice facing something new and moving toward it. You do both. The reason you do both is because you want to give frequent practice. With something like the small sequential steps leading toward swim lessons, chances are good that you won’t be able to go to the pool or swimming every day. But you still want your child to practice bravery every day. So, on days it doesn’t work to go to the pool, find other things for your child to do that involve experimenting with feeling nervous and facing something new and unfamiliar, then moving toward it.

[Tammy] I missed that. Yeah, you know, when I always teach this skill, I’m always thinking of it as context-dependent, like we’re trying to get them to go to school or swimming lessons. So, I’m always thinking about building up the skill in the context where the anxiety occurs. But I forget that you can teach that bravery skill and build those neural networks in different contexts. It’s almost like building brave muscles, like telling kids that going to the gym, you have to get that brave muscle engaged.

[Dr. Dawn] Right. Because kids who struggle with anxiety use avoidance as a default, right? As soon as they begin to feel anxious, it really doesn’t matter what it’s about—they want to move away from the thing that’s making them afraid. So, we’re trying to undo that automatic response and teach kids how to tolerate feeling apprehensive, feeling nervous, feeling uncertain—how to just stay in that feeling rather than moving away.

[Tammy] Beautiful. Because that’s what we’re doing—we’re building tolerance so they can handle it. I think the underlying piece is that they’re more capable than they think they are.

[Dr. Dawn] Yeah. And we want kids to see that big, bad things don’t usually happen, and little bad things are manageable, right? Kids often think in terms of worst-case scenarios, and then they become concerned that any bad thing will happen and that it won’t be manageable. But we want them to see that those big, bad things are really, really unlikely, and little bad things might happen, but they can get through them, right? For example, your swim teacher might present something that you don’t automatically know how to do. That’s okay. Or something might happen in swim lessons where other kids are catching on and you’re not. That’s okay, too. There’s a learning curve. You hang in there, and you’ll get it eventually. The teacher’s not going to yell at you. The teacher’s still going to be kind and will help you. So, we want kids to see that they can overcome these little bumps that exist in everyone’s lives and be okay.

[Tammy] Beautiful. So, we’re moving away from avoidance and moving towards what we would call accommodations. You mentioned that word earlier, and that’s parents doing their best. I really want to emphasize that too. I think we accommodate by removing the obstacle or by saying, “No, you don’t have to go to swim lessons,” because we see our child in pain. We don’t want to see our kids in pain; it activates parts of our brain that feel pain. We have empathy and compassion for our kids. But it teaches them that the thing is as scary as they think it is. And I think that’s what we don’t consider at that moment.

[Dr. Dawn] Right? And I’m really careful about how I use language with kids and parents. So, what we’re doing when we accommodate is agreeing with our child that that thing is dangerous, right? You mentioned earlier that we’re teaching our kids that the thing is as scary as they think it is. I would say that we’re teaching them that the thing is as dangerous as they think it is. They do feel afraid, and that feeling is real to them, but that feeling doesn’t necessarily mean they’re in danger. One of the things I often say is that just because you’re afraid doesn’t mean you’re in danger, right? And I think we should never say to our children, “Don’t be afraid.” They feel what they feel, right? We can say, “You’re not in danger. This is safe,” but we don’t want to say, “Don’t be afraid.”

[Tammy] Beautiful. Just so you know, after our podcast, I’m going to be feverishly taking notes on how I need to reframe some of these points for my clients and the parents I work with, because that is a really good point: the fear is okay to feel, but it’s the fact that it’s not going to hurt you. That’s what we’re saying—that this horrible outcome isn’t going to happen. We’re not walking into some kind of fate, right? Or that the child will necessarily be hurt, rejected, or whatever the concern may be.

[Dr. Dawn] And fear, let me just say one other thing, is uncomfortable in and of itself. So, any of us who have ever felt anxious—and that’s most of us—know that when you’re feeling anxious, what you want more than anything is to stop feeling that way. The fear itself, the anxiety itself, is really uncomfortable, and it motivates us to end the feeling. The most efficient way to end the feeling of anxiety is to look for reassurance or to avoid a situation, right? So, that gets back to what we were talking about earlier: we want children to build up tolerance for feeling some amount of anxiety and to move into and through situations, rather than automatically moving away.

[Tammy] Do you think, in this process—especially when we’re thinking about the magic question—when you were talking about the magic question, I was thinking of parents. My son pulls this out of me, I swear, every time he’s anxious. Did you ever feel that way when you were little, Mom? He switched schools this year and was really nervous about it. He said, “Mom, did you ever?” And I said, “Yes, sweetie. I moved to the United States to go to school. I was terrified. I lived in Canada my whole life.” You know, you talk about it. Now, I always say, are there any words of caution with doing that? Like, when we give examples—even if kids aren’t asking, but we do it anyway?

[Dr. Dawn] Yeah, no, I think kids ask, “Did you ever feel that way?” because they’re trying to figure out, “Is there something wrong with me? Is this normal? Did you feel it too?” So, whenever we can honestly relate to what our child is saying, we absolutely should tell them, “I felt this way.” We can give them a clear example of it. We can either share what we did to help ourselves, or if we didn’t do anything to help ourselves, we can say something like, “I didn’t have the tools that you’re learning,” or “I didn’t know,” or “My parents didn’t know how to help me.” We want to be honest with our kids about what we felt and what we struggled with, right? And we certainly want to normalize what they’re feeling. One of the reasons I mention in my biographical sketch that my books are in 23 languages is that I want kids to see that there are kids all over the world feeling the same things they’re feeling and learning the same skills they’re learning. There’s nothing wrong with them. They’re not aberrant, weird, or defective in any way. This is a really normal thing to feel and struggle with, and there are really clear things they can do to help themselves.

[Tammy] The one thing I will caution parents about, especially when I work in my clinical practice with teenagers, is that particular skill of a parent trying to join a child by saying, “When I was young” Sometimes, teens don’t like that. This is not your littles we’re talking about, but more like 14, 15, 16-year-olds. They’re individuating and becoming their own person, and they might think, “You don’t know what it’s like to be me.” So, just a word of caution: that strategy may backfire with a teenager. There’s an interesting dynamic that happens with teens where, at times, they don’t want to hear about it because they want their experience to be unique. Just some words of caution about working with teenagers.

[Dr. Dawn] That’s a great point. I work with children ages 12 and under and their parents. So, yeah. But that’s a really good point.

Anticipated Roadblocks in Building Brave Skills with Teens

[Tammy] Anybody with teens, I’m just saying. And not always—my 16-year-old is pretty good—but I’ve worked with enough teens to see parents in family counseling try to do that. Parents will be like, “Why didn’t that work?” but it worked with my six-year-old. It’s because teens are establishing their identity, so it’s different. They don’t want the same approach, they need something separate from you. And that’s why, right? So, we can always reframe it by asking, “Do you want to hear about a time?” and just see if they’re open to it. So, just a note on teenagers. I guess, what are some anticipated roadblocks, Dawn? When we’re trying to build up their brave skills, especially with these little “experiments,” what might parents run into that leave them thinking, “Well, that didn’t work,” or “This is miserable,” or “Oh my gosh, what do I do with this?” What do you think some of those might be?

[Dr. Dawn] Yeah, so when you’re trying to have your child practice bravery, it’s important to be explicit about it, right? You need to talk to your child about where you’re going to practice being brave, and that means starting to do new and different things. You want to be really clear about it, right? You’re not just suggesting to your child, “Hey, do you want to try this new fruit?” or “Hey, why don’t you do X or Y activity?” You’re not just throwing out suggestions and hoping your child agrees. You’re specifically framing it as bravery practice, right? It’s helpful to come up with a whole list of things your child can do to practice being brave. You can have them randomly pick from that list, or in the book you’re referencing, Facing Mighty Fears About Trying New Things, there are pages with different new things that a child might try. You could have them close their eyes and point to one of them. So, you’re having children select something to do, or you’re assigning them something, and you’re having them practice it. And I would suggest making bravery practice a regular part of your day, in the same way that brushing teeth or doing homework is part of the routine. You just build bravery practice into the daily schedule. You might follow it with something nice, right? For example, if you allow screen time, you might say, “You can use screens after this,” or, “We’ll play a game after.” You follow bravery practice with something enjoyable. Some younger children really benefit from having a reward system, and the way that reward system works is that they get bravery points just for doing the brave thing. The bravery points have nothing to do with whether or not they were afraid; they just have to do with whether they did the challenge. The biggest obstacles are resistance on the part of the child and the fact that family life is busy. It can be hard to find time to build these things in. Oftentimes, parents are hesitant to challenge their child when things are running relatively smoothly. They might think, “My child isn’t in an anxious moment right now. Why would I challenge them and trigger that anxiety?” So, we have to find ways to overcome our own reluctance to do it, our own busyness, and our child’s resistance or hesitation.

[Tammy If we have the one question that’s going to come up—because I know some kiddos, and I’m doing parent coaching right now with some parents—where even though they’re doing something really small, there’s resistance from the kiddo because they’ve been doing it this way forever. So, the avoidance strategy is very strong in this child. Even with a small push, especially with my highly sensitive kiddos, they’ll melt down because it’s something different. Now the parents are like, “Well, I want to do the experiments, but every time I do the experiment, there are these huge tears.”What would you say to those parents who you’re coaching when the kids just absolutely throw themselves on the floor and say, “I’m not doing this. I’m not doing it”?

[Dr. Dawn] We want to give children some agency in this process, so allowing them to choose the activities is beneficial. You can also talk to a child about the size of the steps they take. I often use a pool analogy: what we’re doing is essentially a desensitization technique, similar to getting into a swimming pool. When the water is initially cold, you stay in it, swim, and play, and over time, you get used to it and no longer feel the cold. Similarly, with these bravery challenges, we are helping children become accustomed to feeling apprehensive while still moving towards something. The pool analogy is useful because, often, people enter a pool step by step. They must at least put their toes in to get started. Getting used to the water works best when you move along gradually. You don’t just dip your toe in and stay there for three days. You put your toe in, then your foot, then up to your calf, and so on. We can use this analogy to help children understand that our brains and bodies are designed to help us get used to things. We can also talk about taking steps. If you present a challenge to your child and they become overwhelmed, you want to help them with emotion regulation and bring them back together. Then, you can say, “It seems like that might have been too big a step. Let’s think about a smaller one.” If a child proposes something that’s no step at all—meaning it’s the same as where they were before—you can say, “That’s not actually a step. That’s where you were. Let’s think of something that’s at least a little step forward.” This is where you’re working on the concept of taking steps.

[Tammy] I would really encourage parents to literally take a piece of paper and outline the steps, where the child can write what those steps are going to be, or you can write them for them, or they can even draw a picture for each step. In therapy, we often use a fear ladder, where we develop a hierarchy of items. Each step of the ladder is something the child decides. I think this is really important because, when it comes to kids, autonomy is a huge piece. Children who feel they have no control in their lives and no autonomy are often highly anxious. What you’re saying is so valuable—giving them that piece of control, that preview of what’s coming next, helps a lot. It lets them know what’s going to happen, but also gives them some choice in how it will unfold. This will help them so much because they feel like they’re in the driver’s seat of these little experiments we’re doing—these bravery experiments. I think that’s wonderful advice. Thank you.

[Dr. Dawn] Right. We want to make sure that parents understand that once your child has melted down, you should move into the mode of comforting them and helping them regulate—helping them come back together. It’s not the time to try to talk them into the activity, offer threats or consequences, or bribe them with rewards. What we’re working on is emotional regulation. This means we want to empathize and say something like, “It seems like this was a really big step for you” or “I get it, this is really scary.” Then, we should move into some kind of regulation strategy, such as breathing exercises or a mindfulness activity. We want to help our children regulate again because, when they’re in that agitated, melted-down state, their prefrontal cortex—the thinking part of their brain—is offline. We need to help them calm down to get the thinking part of their brain back online, and then we can return to whatever the activity was. So, the meltdown doesn’t completely derail you; it’s just a matter of pausing, helping your child regulate, and then moving back into the activity.

[Tammy] Beautiful. Yeah, because it’s like I always say, when a child’s drowning, that’s not the time to teach them to swim. When they’re in that state, they can’t hear you, and you can’t teach them to move toward something when they’ve completely flipped their lid and are in a panic state. So, I think it’s a really good reminder that in that moment, we have to just slow down, get them regulated, get them calm, and then we can revisit the steps. If the step was too big, we can adjust it, but in that moment, we can’t just force them into it because then they’re flooded, and that’s not helpful either. I think that creates all kinds of other issues.

[Dr. Dawn] Right? But also, we don’t want to unnecessarily frighten parents about this. There are many children who, once they understand what’s happening in their brain and what the steps or programs are, become cooperative. They don’t like feeling the way they feel. Oftentimes, children get really good at working with the adults in their lives to figure out what the right size step is and how often to do that step. You can really collaborate with a child on working through the program.

[Tammy] Beautiful. Thank you so much, Dawn. That was so helpful. I have included a link to not only your website, so everyone can check out the notes from this podcast, but also to the book we’re talking about. I don’t have the book name in front of me. 

[Dr. Dawn] It’s Facing Mighty Fears—about trying new things.

[Tammy] Thank you. I have this book at home, everyone. It’s absolutely wonderful, as are all of her books. That’s why I said I’ll include the link to her website, where you can find all her books, but they’re available on Amazon. That’s where I bought mine. And she also has a TEDx talk. That’s the other thing I was going to mention. I’ll include a link to her TEDx talk as well. So, Dawn, thank you so much, and again, thank you for all the books. As a therapist, I’ve found them incredibly helpful in terms of the play therapy I’ve done and in working with parents that way. So, thank you.

[Dr. Dawn] Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure.

[Tammy] Okay, bye.