Child Psych Podcast Episode #112

[Tammy Schamuhn] Hello everyone, and welcome to the Child Psych Podcast. My name is Tammy, and I’m a registered child psychologist. I’m the co-founder of the Institute of Child Psychology, and I’m also a mom to three amazing kids. Today on our podcast, we’re going to be talking about all things Mom Brain.

I love neuroscience, and I’m a huge fan of this lady’s work. We have Dr. Ilyse Dobrow DiMarco with us today. She wrote a wonderful book that I’ve been reading over the last several weeks, and we’re going to interview her about the changes that happen with moms and how they can gain their sanity back—whether it’s dealing with anxiety, in-laws who are driving you crazy, or feelings of guilt and shame, which seem to be part of our culture around motherhood. We’ll dive into all those topics.

If you enjoy our podcast, please give us a rate and review on your favorite podcast platform, whether it’s Apple or Spotify. That helps spread the word about our work. Let’s dive in today. We have Dr. Ilyse here. Can I just call you Ilyse?

[Dr. Ilyse Dobrow DiMarco] Yes, of course.

Introduction

[Tammy] Dr. Ilyse is a licensed clinical psychologist and writer specializing in cognitive behavioral therapy for anxiety, parenting, relationship challenges, women’s health issues, and difficult life transitions. She has been featured in The New York Times, The Washington Post, Motherwell, Motherly, Psychology Today, Scary Mommy, Today Parenting, and NPR. That’s amazing!

She’s the author of Mom Brain, the book we’ll be discussing today, which covers proven strategies to fight anxiety, guilt, and the overwhelming emotions of motherhood. She is also the founder and director of the North Jersey Center for Anxiety and Stress Management in Summit, New Jersey. Previously, she served as the Assistant Director of the Anxiety Disorders Clinic at Rutgers Graduate School of Applied and Professional Psychology. Dr. Ilyse earned her BA in Psychology from Yale University and her PhD in Clinical Psychology from Rutgers University. I hope that introduction does justice to your work. You’re so accomplished.

[Dr. Ilyse] Thank you for having me. I’m happy to be here.

[Tammy] This season, we’ve had many listeners write or call in with questions. I’ll start by sharing one of these questions to launch our discussion, and then we’ll delve into your work.

Question From Our Community:

“Dr. Ilyse, I’m a mom of two, and I feel torn all the time. It felt manageable with one child, but since having my second, I feel wracked with guilt all the time. I worry that all my attention is on my second child, and now my first is being neglected. I work from home and have childcare part of the day, but during the other part, I’m trying to manage my two-year-old while answering emails, keeping the house clean, and maintaining order. My husband helps, so I’m lucky I’m not totally alone, but things always feel like a mess. It’s almost impossible to keep the house clean with a five-year-old and a two-year-old. Sometimes, I just feel like a failure. Any advice on how to handle my feelings? I feel like I can’t breathe.”

[Dr. Ilyse] If I had a dime for every time I heard something like that, I’d probably be rich! The first thing I’d say is: You are not alone.

What she describes is a near-universal experience, certainly among the women I work with and those I know in my personal life as well.

So, I’ll throw out a couple of quick thoughts. She brings up what I see as three separate issues:

1. Feeling like she’s neglecting the older child in favor of the younger one.
2. I want to keep the house clean and tidy.
3. The challenges of working from home with children present.

Balancing Time Between Siblings as a Parent

[Dr. Ilyse] I’ll briefly touch on all three, starting with the “one kid versus the other” dynamic. This is something I hear about a lot. First, I want to emphasize that, in my experience, this is much more upsetting for the parent than it is for the child. Many parents feel like they are inflicting lifelong damage on their older child by needing to be more hands-on with the younger one, but that’s simply not the case. That said, something I think can be really helpful for the older child is to set aside a special, regular time for just the two of you. Call it “mom-and-me time” or, for dads, “dad-and-me time”. You can acknowledge your older child: “Hey, I know I have to spend a lot of time with your younger sibling because they’re still little, but I want to start a special time for just the two of us every week. We’ll do something fun together.” The more you can involve the kid, the better, in terms of, like, you know, picking what the activity is—something really fun. And I say, do it regularly, because then it isn’t like a one shot deal, where the kid’s like, “Well, one time Mom took me [to] x place.” Instead, it’s about thinking, “Oh yeah. Mom has to deal with my baby sibling right now, but I know that this Friday, as always, we’re going to go out for ice cream, or we’re going to go to the park or whatever it is.” So that’s my feeling on the first part of it.

[Tammy] It’s that rhythm and predictability that you’re creating for the older one whose rhythm has been completely shattered, like all this. And I find, like, once you get kids on this predictable schedule—as much as you can with being a parent— where they know they get the time, it might not be the same time as before, but there is going to be that point of connection. It’s just—it’s delayed, or it’s every other day. It’s that they know, and that reduces the anxiety around the change of the new child coming in.

[Dr. Ilyse] Absolutely, and I’d add something to that too, which is, I also think you can, every day, carve out a little bit of time for that older kid too. So maybe it’s when the younger kid goes to bed, and you let the older kid go to bed an hour later, so you have some time. I like the idea of a regular time, but I also like the idea of every day carving out even a small pocket of time. And one of the things that I’ve found as a parent myself, and with the parents that I work with, is that, you know, kids remember the stuff you do with them—even if you do this activity with them for 10 minutes, right? Their attention spans are short, and their sense of time is not great. So, you could say, you know, for 10 minutes after dinner, it’s Mom-and-you time. The kid doesn’t really compute what 10 minutes is, but they remember, “Oh, like Mom and I do Lego every day after dinner.” So that’s another way of, again, you know—or after, you know, the little one goes to sleep, or whatever it is. 

Managing Work-from-Home Challenges as a Parent

[Dr. Ilyse] For the second question, the work-from-home one is so hard. Being a psychologist during COVID, as I’m sure you would agree, that was probably the number one thing people talked to me about: “My kids are all over me, and I can’t get any work done.” It’s hard for me to answer this one because I don’t know her particular work situation. I can only respond by reflecting on others I’ve worked with in my practice. For some people, it’s about throwing their hands up and saying, “I can’t get work done when my kid is home.” So, they change their expectations of themselves. You’ll see that adjusting expectations is a recurring theme in my work and my book. Recognize that once your child gets home, you may not be able to do much. Set your work expectations accordingly, even if it means keeping them pretty low. This might also mean carving out time later, which isn’t ideal, or finding time at another part of the day. Again, without knowing her exact work situation, it’s hard to say. But I also ask people to assess whether their childcare situation is working for them. For example, some families can’t afford full-day childcare, and I’m not suggesting breaking the bank for that. However, it’s worth considering whether your current setup is the best fit for your work situation.

[Tammy] I actually went through something similar. I had to switch from having a nanny to using a day home for a variety of reasons that I won’t get into. It worked better for me because, while working from home, my child needed to be out of the house. When I had a nanny at home, my son could always come find me. And, while I love my son, I couldn’t have him crawling onto my lap during a session with a client. I didn’t want to make that change, but I had to. It turned out to be the right decision and it saved money too. But I felt guilty about it. I felt guilty because one-on-one care with a nanny might have been better for him than being in a one-to-five ratio at the day home. But I needed my sanity as a parent.

[Dr. Ilyse] Yeah. I mean, you bring up a really important point, and again, a theme that runs through my book too, which is that we have to consider our own needs as well. One of the things I think about often is how many patients I work with whose kids hate the aftercare program at their elementary schools. I tell them, “Listen, I get that it’s not their favorite, but you need to work, and you need to consider your own needs.” I think this could be, and again, we don’t know her specific situation, an example of that. It’s similar to what you went through when you realized, “You know what? This is not sustainable for me,” and make a choice for yourself.

[Tammy] Absolutely. And he ended up loving the day home, by the way. It worked out great. But I had been catastrophizing, thinking, “Oh, this is going to happen, and it’s going to hurt his attachment with me.” I created this whole story in my head about what might go wrong, even though I had no real evidence for it. That’s such a normal part of anxiety as a parent—we project into the future and imagine all these terrible outcomes.

Managing a Messy House While Parenting

[Dr. Ilyse] And Now for the last piece—the house cleaning issue. First of all, let me say that I’m one of those people who also finds chaos in the home very anxiety-provoking. My kids will tell you that, especially my youngest, who doesn’t like to make his bed. But I’ll also say this: when my kids were smaller— they’re 13 and 10 now, so they’ve aged out of some of this—I had to come to terms with the fact that cleaning the house every day didn’t fit on my priority list. It simply couldn’t. As much as I wanted it to be a priority, I had so many other things to juggle: work, feeding my kids, bathing them, getting them ready for daycare, cleaning up from the previous day, and so on. I had to accept that I couldn’t do it all. It all goes back to setting expectations. I had to say to myself, “I may have a messy house for now.” That mindset shift helped me. What I did, and what I suggest to my patients, is to carve out specific times to tidy up a little, or, if they have the means and the luxury, to hire someone to help with cleaning on a regular basis. Not everyone can afford that, of course, but for those who can, it’s worth considering. Ultimately, it’s about prioritizing and acknowledging that you cannot do everything all at once. Another strategy I often share with parents is to add the phrase “for now” at the end of sentences. For example, instead of saying, “My house is a constant mess,” say, “My house is a constant mess for now.” It’s a great anti-catastrophizing strategy because it reminds you that the current situation is temporary. Things will change. I can say from experience—now that my kids are 10 and 13—that my house is much more in order than it was during those early years.

[Tammy] Yes, and I promise parents this all the time. We’ve discussed it in other episodes too. Once your kids reach a certain age—around five or six—you can actually train them to start helping out around the house. It’s an investment in the beginning, but it pays off. I have a 16-year-old, a 10-year-old, and an 8-year-old. If you came to my house, you’d see how much they contribute. They unload the dishwasher, do laundry, carry firewood, vacuum, and help with nearly everything we do. It’s become a family affair. For any new moms listening, your kids will eventually help with these tasks. It’s temporary. It takes time, but it’s worth it.

[Dr. Ilyse] Right, I agree entirely. We’ve done the same with our kids. Even when they’re really small, you can start giving them little responsibilities. These responsibilities grow into bigger ones as they get older and more capable of handling them.

[Tammy] Awesome. Let me just grab your book—give me one second.

[Dr. Ilyse] Sure.

Exploring the Reality of Mom Brain

[Tammy] Okay, so this is the book, everyone. If you’re watching on YouTube, this is the video. The book we’re talking about is Mom Brain. If you love any of the questions or content discussed here, please consider purchasing her book. We’ve included a link in the description of this podcast. Now, I’m going to ask a question I love because I love neuroscience. We talk about Mom Brain, so let’s either debunk it or substantiate it—is this a thing? I feel like Mom Brain is a pop culture term. People say, “Oh, I have Mom Brain,” and I’ve had moments like that myself. Actually, I don’t think I’ve ever grown out of it. My husband even had to buy me a big keychain with a stuffed animal attached so I wouldn’t lose my keys. I never used to lose my keys until I had kids! Sometimes, I’ll be staring into the fridge, looking right at something, and not even see it. People joke that it’s husbands who are supposed to be like that, but it’s completely me. I never used to be this way before kids, and it hasn’t changed. I really feel like something shifts after becoming a mom. Let’s dive into this idea of Mom Brain. Is it real?

[Dr. Ilyse] It’s definitely a thing, but it’s not a bad thing. I think that’s the misunderstanding we have about it. Mom Brain isn’t just about losing your cell phone or your keys. Our brains actually change structurally and functionally during pregnancy. Beyond that, studies have shown that structural and functional changes also occur in people who didn’t have their children through pregnancy—like fathers or adoptive parents. It’s fascinating to see what happens to us when we become parents. What’s really happening is that our brain is prioritizing our children and caregiving, which is incredibly important. Of course, we want our brains to do that. But this prioritization means that other things—things that used to be top of mind— fall down the priority list. Maybe that’s why you forget where you put your keys. For example, just the other day, I was about to order my son some new T-shirts to wear to bed. Then he came downstairs wearing a brand-new T-shirt. I asked him where he got it, and he said, “Oh, there’s a pack of T-shirts at the top of my closet.”

I checked my Amazon account and realized I’d ordered that pack of T-shirts a month ago, put them away in his closet, and had no memory of doing it! I like to think I’m not losing my mind. It’s just that there’s so much Mom Stuff, work stuff, and larger family stuff swirling around in my head that some things inevitably fall out. 

[Tammy] That makes sense. I think our brains change, too. Doesn’t gray matter in the brain change to prioritize social relationships? After having a child, you’re more empathic, and you can take perspectives better. That’s why I feel like I cried more in the first two years after I had my son than I ever did before. It’s better now, but if you put on one of those commercials where animals are being abused, I’ll cry for an hour! Even Disney movies hit me hard emotionally now.

[Dr. Ilyse] Yes, exactly. The brain changes to prioritize relationships with your baby.

Acknowledging the Hard Moments of Motherhood

[Tammy] I was really impressed with your humor. There’s a section in your book titled What Do You Do When You Kind of Hate Your Kids? I’ve had private conversations with friends about this. Sometimes, as a parent, it almost feels like your toddler or baby is sabotaging your happiness. Logically, you know that’s not true, but part of you harbors resentment in those moments. Then you feel absolutely horrible for it. Can we talk about that section? I found it refreshing because we often see this depiction of blissful motherhood, but another side of motherhood—anger and grief—is rarely discussed.

[Dr. Ilyse] Absolutely. This all goes back to expectations—what we expect of ourselves and the motherhood experience. As you said, there’s this notion that it’s supposed to be 100% blissful all the time. One of the things I mention in the book is that we don’t expect any of our other relationships to be 100% blissful, right? We don’t expect that from our relationships with our partners, parents, or siblings. There are always ups and downs—times when we get annoyed at them, and times when they get annoyed at us. So why would we expect our relationship with our kids to be any different? Exactly. One helpful concept I discuss in the book is the psychological idea of goodness of fit. Sometimes, when parents have issues with their kids—at any age—it’s not about the parent or the child being “wrong” but rather how well their personalities fit together. For example, in the book, I talk about a mom who is very structured, active, and “go-go-go.” She ends up with a child who’s incredibly chill, slow to get moving, and takes forever to leave the house. I explain to moms in similar situations that their frustration is understandable. In this case, it’s not about the parent or the child being at fault. It’s about how their fit isn’t ideal. And by the way, the goodness of fit can change as kids grow older. Reassuring parents that it’s not necessarily about them or their kids, but the circumstances, can be helpful. Sometimes, you’re just at loggerheads because of personality differences, and that’s okay. You know, it’s funny. When I wrote the book, there was this concept on social media about how “toddlers are a-holes.” I didn’t come up with it, but it was everywhere at the time. I included it in the book, and one Amazon reviewer commented, “Love the book, but I hated that she called toddlers a-holes.”

[Tammy]I didn’t take it that way at all!

[Dr. Ilyse] Exactly! That reviewer thought I was a monster. But of course, I never believed my sons were a-holes. The idea is that toddlers, because of their stage of cognitive development, don’t always know what they’re doing. They do things that would objectively frustrate anyone, like throwing a lovingly prepared meal back in your face. In the book, I wrote about how my younger son, who is an absolute sweetheart, went through a biting phase. Once, I was getting yogurt out of the fridge, and he bit me on the butt for no reason! Did he mean to upset me? No. Did he mean to hurt me? No. Who knows what was going on in his little head? At that stage of development, they’re not trying to be jerks—it’s all trial and error as they figure out how to impact the world around them. It’s messy. They don’t yet have the cognitive tools, like logic, reasoning, and empathy, to regulate themselves. That’s something I tell parents to reassure them. Nobody feels good when they’re treated that way, so it’s okay to acknowledge, “These stinks. I feel crummy.” Sometimes, just validating your own feelings can make a huge difference. Telling yourself, “It makes sense that I feel this way” or “This stinks, and it’s okay to feel bad about it” can be incredibly helpful. And yes, getting bitten on the butt really hurts, by the way! Another thing I sometimes tell parents is to try, as much as possible, even if it’s after the incident in question, to laugh at it a little. I find that humor can be helpful. For instance, my son once took a huge container of baby powder and dumped it all over himself and his room. I remember my husband was out of town, and I was faced with a choice: do I freak out about this or just throw my hands up and laugh? I chose to laugh, and honestly, it helped me feel better. So, I think laughter can be a really effective coping strategy.

[Tammy] Yes, and I think we need to acknowledge that some of the thoughts we have as parents can be dark or judgmental. But just because we have fleeting thoughts doesn’t mean we’re going to act on them. It doesn’t make us bad people— it’s just that our emotions are hijacked in those moments, and they come with all kinds of narratives. What would you say to parents when they have those really radical thoughts, like “What would life be like if I didn’t have kids?” or “I wish I could have my old life back”? It’s not that they don’t love their children, but in that moment, those thoughts occur, and then they feel an overwhelming sense of shame.

[Dr. Ilyse] Absolutely. I always tell my patients, thinking isn’t doing. Thinking something doesn’t mean you’re going to act on it, and it certainly doesn’t make you a bad parent. Here’s an example from my book: when my older son was an infant, there was one night when he just wouldn’t go to bed. At the time, we lived in a place with a little terrace. For a brief moment, I fantasized about chucking him over the terrace—not because I wanted to harm him, but because it symbolized escape. Was I ever going to throw him over the terrace? Of course not. But that fleeting thought wasn’t about him—it was about me needing relief. I hadn’t slept in hours, I was wiped out, and I just wanted a break. Again, thinking isn’t doing. Everyone has bad or irrational thoughts sometimes—it’s part of being human. But there’s a big difference between thinking about something and acting on it.

[Tammy] Yes, and I’ve found it helpful to have a few mom friends who have a sense of humor about parenting. These are the people you want in your circle—the ones you can vent to and laugh with about the chaos of parenting. I have a few friends like that, and I can call them up and say, “This happened,” without expecting them to fix it. We can laugh and compare horror stories, and it makes me feel less alone. 

[Dr. Ilyse] Absolutely. That’s why I was deliberate about using humor in my book.

[Tammy] I really think people need to read it. That section was so real and relatable. Thank you for writing about it.

[Dr. Ilyse] You’re welcome!

Overcoming Perfectionism and Embracing Imperfection in Parenting

[Tammy] I also wanted to talk about perfectionism. I’m a recovering perfectionist myself, and having kids forced me to give that up quickly. There’s this idea perpetuated on social media—on Instagram, TikTok, and elsewhere—that you have to be the perfect mom, have the perfect house, create the perfect Halloween costume, and so on. But inevitably, life gets messy, and kids will sabotage those efforts. What strategies do you use with clients who are stuck in perfectionism?

[Dr. Ilyse] Great question. I hear about this issue all the time. One of my favorite strategies is an adapted Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) technique called the responsibility pie chart. In CBT, we use this tool to help people reflect on events where they feel everything is their fault. If you’re personalizing an event and feel like you’re a failure, I ask clients to take a step back and think of the event as a pie chart. Draw a circle and divide it into slices, with each slice representing a factor that contributed to the event. These slices could include other people, environmental circumstances, or even things like the weather. I do this exercise with perfectionist parents to help them see that they can’t control everything. Kids’ behavior, how much sleep they got, other children’s actions, and many other factors are often completely outside of a parent’s control. For example, in my book, I describe a mother whose child has a meltdown during library story time. She leaves, feeling humiliated and blaming herself. When she breaks it down into slices of the pie, she realizes there were many factors beyond her control. Maybe her child didn’t nap well that day, despite her best efforts. Maybe another kid was provoking her child. Maybe the story chosen by the librarian wasn’t engaging. These are all pieces of the pie that aren’t the mother’s fault.

[Tammy] I love the concept of “worst mom ever,” because it’s a trap I’ve fallen into. Here’s an example. Last weekend, I lost my temper with my son. We were supposed to go camping, but the kids couldn’t find anything, and we were running late. My son, who’s eight, couldn’t find his jacket, and I realized he must have left it at school. I was so mad. I started shaming him in my head: “He knows better. It’s the one thing he had to remember.” I was carrying his backpack and everything else, and all these thoughts were spiraling. He came in for a hug, and I said, “Honey, I can’t hug you right now. I’m too mad.” His face fell, and he started crying. Even now, my heart breaks thinking about it. Later, I apologized and repaired the situation, but at that moment, I felt like the worst mom ever. What would you say to someone in that situation?

[Dr. Ilyse] First, I’d say you’re not the worst mom ever. Far from it. I’ve heard this “worst mom ever” sentiment many, many times, so there must be a lot of “worst moms ever” out there because I’ve heard from many of them. What I like to do, actually—and this is another cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) technique that I’ve adapted to help parents—is to have people rank themselves on a scale of moms. So, you say you’re the “worst mom ever,” right? You didn’t hug your son, for example. Let’s take a step back and create a scale where zero represents the worst mom you can possibly think of, and 100 represents the best mom you can imagine. Where do you think you fit on that scale? Usually, people have a hard time coming up with a zero, so they pick a fictional mom, like Betty Draper from Mad Men, or someone else who they think was truly awful. The 100 is also tricky. Some might say June Cleaver from Leave It to Beaver, or they might choose their sister as the “world’s best mom.” So, given these two extremes, are you really the worst mom ever? Are you all the way at the Betty Draper end? Is Child and Family Services going to be called to take your kids away? So, let me ask you this: Do you belong with Betty Draper? 

[Tammy] No, definitely not.

[Dr. Ilyse] I’ve worked with families who are struggling, but I can tell you, you’re not one of those parents. You don’t hit your kids; you don’t do those extreme things. You’re not in that category, even though you might have a bad moment sometimes. When you think about parents who really struggle, like the ones who’ve been in the news for really awful reasons, you realize, you’re not that parent. It wasn’t a great moment, but it’s okay. You’re human, and we all have those moments.

[Tammy] I love that technique because I’ve been there, and you almost have to put things into perspective. I’m like, actually, some of these parents who really struggle are in a completely different league. You didn’t do anything close to that, even if it wasn’t a great moment.

[Dr. Ilyse] Exactly. And that’s the thing. Social media and our culture tend to show an unrealistic picture of motherhood. It’s not all bliss. There are ups and downs, and we all have moments when we lose our cool. But the trick is to put it into perspective and show ourselves some compassion. It’s also really important to repair, like you said. That’s good modeling for your kids.

[Tammy] Yes, my son said to me after we talked, “Well, at least you apologized.” I said, “It’s okay,” but it wasn’t okay. I wasn’t proud of how I handled it, but I really appreciate his grace. I told him, “That wasn’t okay, but thank you for being so understanding.”

[Dr. Ilyse] Absolutely. That’s a great example of repairing, and showing your kids that it’s okay to mess up and make amends.

Practical Strategies for Managing Anxiety as a Parent

[Tammy] Now, before you go, I want to talk about anxiety and being a mom, because it’s really prevalent. Whether you’re a child or a parent, anxiety is rising, and I love some of the strategies in your book. I use them myself as a therapist—like the “worst case scenario” strategy. There are several strategies, and I’d love for you to dive into the “what if” anxiety that many parents experience.

[Dr. Ilyse] Absolutely. I hear about this all the time. One of my favorite strategies is the “consider the evidence” technique. This is a core strategy in CBT. When you’re worried about something, first articulate your worry. Then ask yourself, what’s the evidence to suggest that this thing is actually going to happen, and what’s the evidence that it won’t? It’s important to focus on facts. In CBT, we remind people that feelings aren’t facts. Often, we get anxious about something, and because we’re anxious, we think something bad is bound to happen, even though there’s no real evidence to support that. For example, we might worry about our child getting abducted, but there’s no evidence to suggest that the street they’re walking on is dangerous.

[Tammy] That’s a great strategy

[Dr. Ilyse] Exactly. Another strategy I really like is worst-case scenario thinking. For example, if your child is climbing a tree and you’re anxious about them falling, you might start catastrophizing and think, what if they fall and break their leg? Then you might start hovering or micromanaging them. So, you ask yourself: What’s the worst that could happen? Let’s say your child falls out of the tree and breaks their arm. What would you do? You would rush them to the ER, get a cast, and move on. The worst-case scenario is manageable.

[Tammy] That makes so much sense. You’re focusing on the realistic worst-case scenario, not something extreme, like the child dying, which is very unlikely.

[Dr. Ilyse] Exactly. When people worry about highly unlikely events, it’s important to focus on more realistic possibilities. And I do talk about this in the book—there are times when the worst-case scenario really could be bad, and those moments require different strategies.

The other set of strategies I use comes from Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT), which helps change our relationship to our thoughts. We learn to see our worries for what they are—just worries, nothing more. ACT has some fun techniques, like singing your worries. You take your worry and set it to music, then start singing and dancing along with it. You can also give your worry a name, like “Jennifer,” and start addressing it like it’s a separate entity. These techniques help distance yourself from the worry and make it less overwhelming.

[Tammy] I love that idea!

[Dr. Ilyse] Another technique is to tack on the phrase, “I am having the thought that” For example, instead of saying, “I’m a bad parent,” you say, “I’m having the thought that I’m a bad parent.” This helps create a little distance between you and the thought itself. In front of a worry, instead of saying, “My kid is going to fall out of this tree,” you say, “I am having the thought that my kid is going to fall out of this tree.” Again, what all these strategies do is help you recognize that these are just worries. There isn’t necessarily evidence to back them up right now. You can use any and all of these strategies depending on the situation. I mention in the book how sometimes people say, “Well, if you’re doing CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy), you can’t do ACT (Acceptance and Commitment Therapy), and if you’re doing DBT (Dialectical Behavior Therapy), you can’t do CBT.” I’m of the opinion that you should use what works. I present all of these strategies in the book and let the reader decide which ones work for them in different circumstances.

[Tammy] Yeah, I found your book to be really practical, honestly. Anyone listening, I’ve used so many of these strategies myself. I especially found them helpful during graduate school. I had a lot of anxiety during that time, actually, because I had moved to a new country, and it was just a culture shock for me. These strategies were actually presented to me by a friend, who told me to read a cognitive therapy book. It pretty much saved my life and helped me get through graduate school. There were certain strategies, and one that really helped me—maybe you mention it—is asking myself, Is this a small worry? If something happens and I start judging myself, like, oh, I shouldn’t have said that thing, or that mom was looking at me in the grocery store, or whatever I’m feeling guilty or ashamed about, I’ll ask myself, Will this matter in five months? Will this matter in one year? Will I even remember this? A lot of times, I catch myself laughing because I realize I won’t even remember it in six months—sometimes I can’t even remember what happened six days ago.

And then I’ll think, If I’m worried about someone judging me, when was the last time I noticed a parent in a grocery store and remembered their face or who they were? We don’t. So, I just thought your book was very practical, and I really appreciated that, as well as your use of humor. So, I appreciate the time you took. Everyone, the book is called Mom Brain: Proven Strategies to Fight Anxiety, Guilt, and Overwhelming Emotions of Motherhood. If you’re watching on YouTube, you can see I’m holding up the book. The podcast description includes Dr. Ilyse’s bio and website, along with a link to purchase the book. Every mom deserves a treat, like a nice Starbucks, and to read this book and realize they’re not alone in this. We’re all struggling.

[Dr. Ilyse] Thank you so much for having me. It was great to talk to you.

[Tammy] Thank you. Have a great day!