Child Psych Podcast Episode #124

[Tania] Hello and welcome back to another Masterclass. For those of you who don’t know me, I’m Tania Johnson, registered psychologist, registered play therapist, co-founder of the Institute of Child Psychology. We are thrilled to have Dr. Lexie Kite and Dr. Lindsay Kite back with us again. Welcome, Lindsay and Lexi.

 

[Lexie] Hi, we’re happy to be with you.

 

[Tania] We were just saying that it’s actually been about three or four years. I was very excited for today. A quick introduction: Lexie and Lindsay are identical twins, co-directors of Beauty Redefined, and co-authors of the fabulous book More Than a Body: Your Body Is an Instrument, Not an Ornament. Such important work! I feel like the further we get into 2025, 2026, and 2027, this book becomes increasingly relevant.

 

[Lindsay] Thank you. We agree. It’s been what, four years since we wrote it, but man, more relevant than ever.

 

[Tania] Yeah, you know, it’s funny because often with parenting books, I feel like — and I’ve written a parenting book — I would like to think that it becomes more relevant over time. But the reality is that many parenting books quickly become outdated, whereas this one doesn’t. I think that as our teens and children get phones at younger and younger ages, parents need this information more than ever.

 

[Lindsay] Well, that means a lot. I think that actually speaks to the nature of our work. When you talk about body image, it’s often so time-bound, influenced by trends and what feels progressive at the moment. But our work is deeply rooted in research and timeless ideas that don’t waver depending on which body types are in style or what parenting methods are in vogue. So, that means a lot to hear you say that. Thank you.

 

[Tania] Yeah, beautiful. It really comes back to a value set, right? Instead of asking, “Who do we want our girls to be in the world?” we should ask, “What can we nurture?” And you’re right, that doesn’t change over time. It doesn’t matter what’s trending on social media or what new video app is out. Those things may shift, but the message you’re trying to give to our girls remains constant. Lindsay and Lexie, I’m not sure who wants to go first, but in your book, you so beautifully explored your own journey and the reasons behind writing this book. I know that writing a book is a labor of love. So, I wonder if we could start there. We have a mom who sent in a question for us, but I’d love to begin with your story first. What do you think, Lins? You want to take it?

 

[Lindsay] Yeah, I can take it. We have both personal and professional motivations behind the work we’ve done and the book we wrote. I think it really started in childhood when we became hyper-aware of our bodies and appearance. Part of that stemmed from being identical twins, constantly compared and scrutinized every time we walked into a room: who’s taller, who’s thinner, who has the rounder face, who has the straighter teeth. People would comment on these things all the time. I think this gave us a heightened awareness of our appearance and a deep self-consciousness about our bodies. We were able to visibly see someone who looked exactly like us from every angle, which provided new opportunities to compare ourselves, pick apart our appearance, and judge ourselves. This was compounded by growing up in a conservative, patriarchal culture that valued women primarily for their looks. Plus, it was the 90s, a time when thinness was highly prized, peaking in the late 90s and early 2000s as we navigated high school and college. We grew up a little thicker, so we were always trying to lose weight. I think we started consciously dieting around sixth grade, which led to years of fixation on appearance and weight loss. When we reached college, we began to understand the root causes of these feelings. It wasn’t that we were abnormally disgusting or embarrassing. Instead, we were raised in an environment that fixated on women’s appearances. The only women who received positive attention fit one narrow ideal: thin, white, young, and conventionally attractive. As we delved into this subject, we discovered an entire field of study dedicated to these issues. We realized we could not only understand why women feel this way but also help girls, women, and people of all genders find a way out of this mindset and fight back for themselves.

 

[Tania] Beautiful. Lexi, did you want to add anything? I mean, that was so beautifully said. Is there anything you’d like to add?

 

[Lexie] Yeah, I mean, even just hearing Lindsay talk about it, I reflect on what has now been more than 20 years of doing this work. If we start from the time we entered college in 2003 and had this epiphany while sitting in these classrooms, learning about media literacy — why media is created and engineered the way it is, and how much profit lies behind us thinking of ourselves as objects to be fixed and projects to be perfected — we are now 22 years into this process of helping people understand that women are more than bodies. That very title of our book encapsulates this message: our bodies, when viewed as instrumental rather than ornamental, allow us to come home to them. We can prioritize how we feel over how we look. This work is timeless and relevant at every stage of life. I am now a mom of three, having just had my third daughter. This work resonates deeply with me as a mother and with Lindsay as an aunt. What we so desperately want people to know is that you cannot fix the outside of your body to heal an internal problem — a problem rooted in shame and body image. We believe that through body image resilience, we have the tools to help people reclaim their power, see the objectifying world for what it is, and reject these harmful rules. We can’t raise our kids to conform to these standards just to fit in, be happy, and feel loved. There is another way — a more loving, human, and compassionate way to treat ourselves and raise our children to be at home in their bodies, at peace with their bodies, and to help heal the world from the highly sexualized and objectified way women and girls are so often treated.

 

[Tania] And as we both speak, I can’t help but think about what a different world it would be for our children if they could simply exist in their bodies, be present in their bodies, and use them in all the amazing ways they can, without feeling as if they’re constantly being watched and judged.

 

[Lexie] Yeah, such a different world. I think about my nine-year-old daughter, and you know, before she came along, we had been doing this work for many years. She kind of became a guinea pig for body image resilience. We had been talking for so long about how to raise kids in this world to help them be at home in their bodies for as long as possible. I think about my own baby daughter, who is now nine, and she has yet to say a negative thing about her body. She truly has an instrumental view of her body. I know that at some point, that will change. Even with a mom who is a body image expert, I live in a female body and face objectification every day, choosing how to cope with it. I know she will face that shame and pain too. But so far, Logan has been able to fight back against the objectification she hears at school from her best friend, who says, “All I want is to be pretty.” Logan comes home and tells me, “It hurt my heart so much that my friend said this.” And this is what I said to her. She brought her these little stickers that say “Instrument, not ornament” and “More than a body.” I just think about the fact that when Lindsay and I were five, six, or seven, I was looking down at my thighs in a reading circle in second grade and seeing that my thighs were bigger than all my friends’, feeling such immense shame about it. She has the same thighs, and she hasn’t gotten there yet. So, my whole goal is to help her live as long as possible without picturing herself being looked at and operating according to her own worst fears about how other people might think about her and see her. And that’s what we want for all parents. We’ll talk about that here today — how to help them live inside their bodies.

The Difference Between Body Positivity and Body Image Resilience

 

[Tania] Beautiful. Thank you, Lindsay. Quick question for you before we jump into our mom’s question. Lexie mentioned body image resilience. Can we quickly discuss the difference between body positivity and body image resilience?

 

[Lindsay] Sure, yeah, body positivity has become such a cultural buzzword, I feel like, and really reached the height of its popularity in the last decade or so. It wasn’t a term before that. It’s a well-meaning response to the shame that so many girls and women feel. It attempts to counteract the negative messages about women and our bodies in the media. This comes after the 90s and early 2000s, when there was such a focus on thinness and rampant sexualization in the media. While this still continues in many ways, body positivity emerged as a cultural response to say, “Girls and women feel bad about their bodies, so instead, we’re going to tell them they are beautiful just the way they are, that their flaws make them beautiful, and that they should love their bodies because of their flaws.” Like I said, it’s an attempt—a great fix—but I think it’s more of a band-aid. It helps people begin to push back against these negative and unhealthy messages about bodies. However, the reason I call it an attempt is that it still keeps the focus on beauty. It emphasizes feeling beautiful as the key to having a positive mindset and high self-esteem. We know that this isn’t true. Many women might feel beautiful and sexy one day but still spend the whole day evaluating themselves through others’ eyes and worrying about how they are perceived. When self-esteem hinges on whether or not you feel beautiful, it can easily be shattered. Our culture is designed to tear women down so that they will buy products, follow influencers, and adopt workout routines or diets to fix that internal shame. Body image resilience is our answer, and it’s more methodical. It’s grounded in research on the fact that women do feel negatively about their bodies. We recognize this cycle, which we call a state of normative discontent. In our culture, it is perfectly normal and unquestioned to feel baseline negativity about your body. Many people bond over this shared experience. In this objectifying environment, which we refer to as the “waters of objectification” because it’s invisible and all around us, we are inevitably hit by “waves of disruption.” These waves can be anything that knocks us down: a negative comment, comparing yourself to someone who gets more attention because of their looks, pregnancy, miscarriage, or anything that changes your relationship with your body. In response to these waves of disruption, women and girls tend to follow one of three paths. The first is sinking deeper into shame. [Lindsay] Unfortunately, many people turn to harmful negative coping mechanisms just to survive. A lot of people can relate to this through disordered eating, the abuse of prescription drugs, illegal drugs, alcohol—anything that numbs the shame they might be experiencing. The more common approach is to cling to that comfort zone, to hide and attempt to fix their bodies. This is when people turn to new diet plans, workout routines, cosmetic surgery, makeup, and fashion. They try to control their appearance through consumerism or other external solutions. We also hide. This is when girls opt out of PE class, sports, dance, or any type of physical activity. They stop raising their hands in class and shrink into the background to cope with the shame that arises from these waves of disruption, both big and small, that occur throughout life. Lexie and I identified this cycle and realized we needed to find a way out. We could stay in this cycle forever. Unfortunately, body positivity sometimes keeps us trapped in this loop by placing a band-aid on the issue, saying, “You’re beautiful. You’re more beautiful than you think. Other people think you’re beautiful, I swear.” For a moment, we might think, “Alright, maybe I am prettier than I thought.” But we’re still stuck in that comfort zone of self-objectification, feeling shame, and being knocked over by those waves that convince us, “No, you’re not as beautiful as you think you are.” The method out of this is rising with body image resilience. It involves building the skill set to respond to those waves every single time and not just coping in the moment but strengthening that muscle so that each wave becomes less detrimental and jarring. Eventually, it becomes second nature to come back home to your body instead of splitting from yourself and watching from the outside, like a critical onlooker—like a twin looking at her identical twin and thinking, “She looks disgusting in those pants. I’m never going to wear those pants.” We don’t have to think that way. Instead, we can return to our bodies through a variety of skills and tools that we would love to discuss more today. That’s body image resilience—being able to come back to yourself instead of coping in ways that have harmed us for so long.

 

[Tania] I love it. What I love about this project is how deep it is. Instead of just looking at the surface and saying, “You’re okay, you’re okay,” it’s about truly diving in and addressing the root of the issue.

 

[Lindsay] Exactly. Why do you not feel okay? What can we do about that? There’s so much more to it.

 

[Tania] Totally. Okay, so on that note, let’s get to this question and dissect it a little to see what ideas we can come up with. I’ll read it to you. This came from one of the moms who listens to the interviews on our social media channels.

 

Question:
“I walked into my 13-year-old’s bedroom the other day and found her crying. She was pulling at her stomach and repeatedly saying that she hated her body. How did this happen to my little girl? She got her first phone last year, and I feel like we’ve kind of lost her over the past few months. I try not to talk about my own body issues in front of her, but I know she has seen me dieting over the years. I feel awful. Please help.”

 

[Lexie] We can help. We understand this pain. I can only imagine how that must feel as moms, as parents, and as people who love these kids and understand the pain they’re experiencing. That is heart-wrenching. So, first of all, please know that we are with you. My heart goes out to you. Second, it’s okay. You are asking the right questions and identifying the pain your daughter is feeling. That is an amazing first step. Instead of brushing it off with “We all go through this” or “She’ll be fine,” you are showing genuine concern. Let’s fix this. First, we encourage you to be honest and vulnerable with your daughter. Start with your shared pain. You don’t have to tell her everything, but share what you feel comfortable with about the pain you’ve experienced and when it began. I suspect it might have started around the same age your daughter is now. As a mom, seeing your daughter go through what you once did can be triggering. The media is far more pervasive now than it was before, which makes it even harder. Be honest with her about your pain. Assure her that she is not alone and that many girls, women, and people experience shame and pain about their bodies. Then, dig deeper. Help her figure out where these ideas come from because she wasn’t born with them. She didn’t always feel this way. I remember seeing her just two weeks ago, playing in the water or playing softball with her friends, carefree. So, what changed? Let’s ask some questions: Where did these ideas come from? Did they stem from her phone or social media? What is her algorithm showing her? Ask her how her friends talk about their bodies. Has she noticed anything about you or her teachers that has influenced her perception of herself? Encourage her to be honest and open. Also, ask what triggered this feeling right now. Remind her that this is just a feeling, not reality. She has lived in her body her entire life, so what is causing this sudden discomfort? By being open, vulnerable, and loving, you can help her understand that there is nothing wrong with her. She has simply absorbed harmful information that makes her focus on her appearance rather than living fully in her body. Changing her body won’t solve the problem. Ask her who she compares herself to and what she hopes to gain by changing her appearance. Help her realize that even those she envies don’t have perfect lives. Even the most beautiful people face rejection, heartbreak, and bullying. The things she believes she will gain by changing her body may not be realistic.She is not in control of that. It doesn’t matter if she loses weight, changes her clothes, or fixes her acne. The shame might simply shift to another part of her body, and she will continue to focus on her appearance instead of living in her body. As you ask her these questions, help her understand a mantra: “My body is an instrument, not an ornament.” Teach your daughter that her body is meant for her use and experience — to live, breathe, play, hug, talk, connect, and interact. Her body is her vehicle, her instrument to do and be all the things she can be in a world that truly needs her. It is not an ornament for others to look at and judge. Living with that mindset will never bring happiness. This is just the beginning, but we encourage leading with vulnerability and honesty. Let her know this is a journey you will take together. When the spark of shame arises, instead of swallowing it down or coping through dieting — like deciding to quit sugar to feel better about herself for school pictures or an upcoming vacation — guide her toward healthier coping mechanisms. Help her breathe into the moment and recognize what is truly triggering her. Encourage her to think critically about the fact that even those who look the way she wishes to look don’t automatically gain the things she believes come with appearance. Help her understand that her body is good, that body diversity is beautiful, and that her body will change and grow throughout her entire life, just as yours does. Together, you can learn that no matter what her body is doing, how others perceive it, or how she views it, her body is hers — the only home she will ever have. When she learns to treat it well and live inside it, rather than floating outside in an abstract, anxious state, she will find true happiness, power, and peace.

 

[Tania] So beautiful. Lindsay, I feel like we’ve got it. Is there anything else?

 

[Lindsay] No, I love that. I would also feel really grateful as a mom that your daughter confided in you because many kids keep such feelings to themselves. Shame is often secretive, especially for young kids. I remember feeling that way as a child and teenager, thinking I was uniquely gross and embarrassing, so why would I tell anyone? Being able to express that to her mom or even being caught and having a vulnerable moment opens up a conversation and a path forward. It’s crucial to bring that shame to light so she knows this isn’t a uniquely personal problem. It’s something many people face, and together, you can work on it.

Raising Confidence and Supporting Your Child Through Body Image Struggles

 

[Tania] What I love is your advice on starting from a place of vulnerability. Many parents immediately think, “What do I do right now? How do I fix this?” But this moment presents an opportunity for a genuine conversation.

 

[Lexie] I think it’s helpful to consider your automatic reaction as a mom. This is where some of the problems arise. Many people might respond with, “No, no, no, you’re not fat. You’re skinny. You’re perfect. You’re beautiful. You shouldn’t worry about this.” Others might say, “I understand why you feel this way. It’s tough, and you’ve gained weight since puberty, which can be embarrassing. As a family, we’ll cut out sugar, carbohydrates, and start a keto diet and workout routine together.” While this seems supportive, it actually validates her fears that something is wrong with her body and that she’s been “bad” and needs to “fix” herself by being “good.” This moralizing of bodies, weight, food choices, and exercise adds to the shame and unhealthy coping mechanisms. Weight gain during puberty is perfectly normal. Our bodies change, hair grows, acne appears, and we move further from beauty ideals, which can be triggering. Avoid commenting on her appearance. Instead, express, “I think you are the most beautiful thing in the world. I’ve known your little body since you were a baby, and I love you unconditionally.” Focus on who she is rather than how she looks.

 

[Tania] The mom says, “What happened to my little girl?” And I think so many parents can relate. In your book, you beautifully describe the transformation of a carefree little girl playing on the beach as she enters the waters of self-objectification. I think many parents can see this in their own children. You have a kid who climbs trees without a care in the world, and then suddenly, they become more self-conscious—aware of how they look, who is looking at them, and almost as if they are on camera all the time.

 

[Lindsay] You can introduce this metaphor to a 13-year-old girl who is feeling this way, or even to a younger child experiencing similar emotions. Why not say, “I just read a book about this?” You could also go through our workbook with your kids. We recently published a workbook to accompany More Than a Body, which breaks these concepts down into manageable steps. One of the first steps is to think back to when you or your child was little—before self-consciousness set in and before they began seeing themselves through others’ eyes. We use the metaphor of being on the beach: You are fully present, embodied, comfortable. You’re playing in the sand, wearing your swimsuit or a little t-shirt, hunched over with sand on you, belly out, not a care in the world. It’s pure joy. So, when a mom says, “What happened to my little girl?” She is remembering that carefree child at the beach. When a 13-year-old is struggling with self-objectification, this metaphor can help her visualize what she’s experiencing. She has dipped her toes—or perhaps been pushed or splashed—into the waters of objectification. Social media plays a role in this, as do other influences, including things parents might have said unintentionally. It’s important to acknowledge these influences and talk about how she has been introduced to these waters—because it’s completely normal. Everyone is surrounded by it. But by recognizing and becoming more conscious of it, we can push back against it.

 

[Tania] I love that metaphor. I can see it and feel it perfectly.

 

[Lexie] Thank you. When we were writing the book, that metaphor felt like a revelation. We were trying to help people understand the inevitable split that happens to all of us. Your daughter is experiencing something that is almost a universal part of the human condition—especially for women growing up in patriarchal, capitalist, and Western societies, or in societies where Western media has a strong influence. It is a shared experience: the transition from being a whole, embodied child to feeling self-conscious and fragmented. And it is not her fault. This shift is completely normal. What’s important is to help her understand that there is no blame in how she feels. She should know that it’s okay, but also that she can reclaim herself by prioritizing how she feels rather than what others see. The media—especially profit-driven media, including influencers—constantly tells girls they need to fix, change, and monitor themselves. But true happiness is never found there. You won’t find lasting love, popularity, or self-worth through curated images and external validation. Those things are fleeting. Validation can be given to you, but it can just as easily be taken away. Real confidence comes from embracing who you are, rather than curating a version of yourself for others. That is what grounds you. That is what allows you to feel whole again. This process of splitting will continue throughout life because we live in an objectifying world. Our body image resilience model acknowledges that no one escapes this. As we age, advertisers and media makers create new insecurities—new flaws, new body parts to worry about, new solutions to sell. It’s a cycle designed to keep us feeling inadequate. However, we don’t have to be swept away by these waves. We can learn to navigate them and find our way back to ourselves. The key is to focus on how we feel in the moment—what our bodies can do rather than how they look. We should ask ourselves:

What is triggering me?

What will actually bring me joy?

What do I feel like I’m missing?

What do I think I could gain by changing?

Then, instead of seeking fulfillment through self-objectification, we can take a different path to achieve those same desires. This might sound abstract, but there are practical strategies to help. Social media is a great place to start—examining how we use it and how it shapes our self-perception can be a powerful step forward.

 

[Tania] Yeah, and we know that social media has a huge influence. Kids are getting phones younger and younger. This mom here says, “It’s been a few months, and I feel like I’m losing her.” Next year, as you’re talking about taking back some of that power and saying, “Hold on, I can do something different,” I think one of the biggest challenges is that kids are constantly flooded with messages—what they should do, how they should look, what they need to fix. It’s relentless, like a whisper in their ear all the time.

 

[Lindsay] Yeah, that mom immediately made the connection to the phone her daughter has had. And we know that, of course—we know how social media, with its constant stream of images and messages, affects us as adults. Naturally, it’s impacting the growing brain and self-concept of young kids even more. I think it’s great that at 13, she hasn’t had a phone since she was nine. Many kids are getting phones even younger. Like Lexie said, our goal should be to delay their access to social media and unregulated internet use for as long as possible. Of course, we want kids to have phones for safety, but there are options that don’t provide internet or social media access. Platforms like Instagram and TikTok can be particularly harmful unless the feed is carefully curated. Social media, in general, can be used for both good and harm. When it comes to body image, it can either be self-help or self-harm. Girls are familiar with self-harm—if they haven’t experienced it themselves, they probably know someone who has. It’s often described as a way to numb pain or feel something when emotions become overwhelming. We need to help kids recognize that constant exposure to social media can function in a similar way. It becomes a distraction, a way to numb emotions. Encourage kids to pause and ask themselves: How am I feeling right now? Why do I keep scrolling? Why am I reading all these comments? Why do I check this specific person’s page every day? A lot of this behavior is driven by negative urges—the desire to seek out things that might hurt but provide momentary dopamine hits. Kids may think they’re learning or seeing things they need to see, when in reality, it’s making them feel lonelier, more isolated, and more depressed. Negative body image is a huge consequence of social media engagement, and we need to talk about it openly with kids. Delaying their access isn’t just about setting rules; it’s about helping them understand why—so they can have some buy-in and recognize that these limits are truly for their own well-being. Simply saying, “This is for your own good. No, you can’t do it,” isn’t enough. We’re going to sit down with them and actually go through the visuals. Pull up your own social media—if that’s a useful tool and they already have access to it, use it as a way to guide the conversation. Give them concrete examples and say “Research shows that when kids—or even adults—use social media, women and girls, in particular, tend to feel more isolated and lonely. They experience more self-comparison and less unity with other girls and women. Instead of feeling connected, they often feel competitive, jealous, and as though they’re constantly losing. Every time we scroll, we unconsciously place ourselves lower in the hierarchy in our minds.” These negative effects are well-documented. However, there are also potential benefits of social media for a 13-year-old girl, and you can go through that list with her as well. This should be a collaborative and active conversation. We suggest making a list—either on your phone or on a piece of paper you can hang up—to track the pros and cons. Start with your own experiences, then ask her: What cons have you noticed or heard about from kids using social media? What are the pros? What do you hope to gain from it? There is some value in social media when used properly. It can provide meaningful connections, allowing kids to communicate with friends, family, and people they might not see in person often. This kind of interaction can help decrease feelings of loneliness and isolation. Additionally, social media can feature positive role models. Some influencers promote healthy habits, including physical activity, which is one of the best ways to improve body image. Instead of seeing the body as an ornament, social media can help reinforce the idea of using it as an instrument. Following female sports teams or athletes—such as Olympians sharing their weightlifting, soccer, basketball, or shot put training—can boost self-efficacy and confidence. It can serve as a reminder to get active and pursue personal goals. There are healthy, inspiring figures on social media, and that should be included in the pros list. However, this needs to be an ongoing conversation where your child takes part in weighing both the benefits and drawbacks. Together, you can negotiate:

How much time can be spent on social media?

Who will have access to monitor usage?

Will parents have the password and the ability to check in?

These terms should be agreed upon as part of a mutual understanding, ensuring a balanced and responsible approach to social media use.

 

[Lexie] Yes, a few things that I would add to that. We write about this in both More Than a Body and the workbook for More Than a Body. In the workbook, we provide questions to ask yourself right after engaging with social media or watching your favorite TV show. This is something you can do with your daughter or your kids to determine whether it’s sparking self-objectification—causing you to step outside your body and focus on how you look instead of truly experiencing life from within. We also discuss the pros and cons list, along with helping both yourself and your kids understand how social media algorithms work. This is crucial because these algorithms are designed to be highly profit-driven. Platforms like TikTok and Instagram will prioritize feeding you “ideally beautiful” images—often objectified or sexualized representations of women. The faces you see are almost always filtered, even if there’s no visible indicator starting a beauty filter is in use. Most people create their videos or photos in ideal lighting, using ring lights and post-production editing to enhance their appearance. Understanding that the algorithm curates content based on what you engage with allows you to take control and restrain it to show you what benefits you. If you spend time looking at objectified content, the algorithm will show you more of it. However, if you take action—muting, unfollowing, selecting “see less of this,” or even reporting harmful content—you can shift what appears in your feed. Quickly scrolling past unwanted content signals to the platform that you are not interested in it. Additionally, actively seeking out content that aligns with your values can reshape your experience. Use the search bar to look for topics like women athletes, body positivity, activism, body image, mindfulness, or anything that supports your well-being. There are many individuals and communities offering insightful, supportive content. Personally, I have tailored my TikTok and Instagram feeds to include only content that doesn’t make me compare myself to others. I avoid following influencers—even people I know and love—who are focused on gaining followers and making a profit by selling products. Instead, I choose to engage with content that uplifts and educates me. It’s also important to teach kids that the algorithm can work for them instead of against them. This awareness is a crucial first step. Additionally, setting screen time limits and avoiding social media when feeling particularly triggered or self-conscious can be beneficial. Social media should be used for its positive aspects—such as connecting with others and learning new things—rather than for comparison or validation. For younger kids, it’s best to keep their social media connections limited to people they know in real life and to ensure they are not messaging strangers. There are many ways to stay safe online, but ideally, we should delay exposure to social media for as long as possible. When kids do start using it, we should be active participants in their experience rather than passive consumers.

 

[Tania] I love that. I love that last one. We’re not passive consumers because that’s what we’re teaching our kids—that we actually do have control. So often, it feels like, What do I do? But actually, no, there is quite a bit of control that we do have here. Okay, so our first big one for this mom has been social media, and I love that we’ve covered that. What are some other concrete things this mom can think about for her kid?

 

[Lindsay] Concentrate on the physical part of things. We’ve talked a lot about how you think about yourself, how you can stop, breathe, and take a moment to reflect on what’s triggering you. But I think taking an active role in using your body as an instrument isn’t just something we should talk about—it’s something we should build into our lifestyles. That is one of the most effective ways to develop a healthy self-concept, especially a positive body image for both girls and boys. Instead of saying, Alright, as a family, we’re going to be more active so that we don’t feel fat or anything like that, we should frame it differently. We are going to be more active so we can stop focusing on how we look and start using our bodies as the instruments they were designed to be. This shift helps us feel better in every aspect of our lives. When you get those endorphins pumping, your mood improves, you feel better about your body and how it functions—everything. Regardless of ability level, simply using your body—going on a walk, for example—is a great way to achieve this. It’s super cold right now, but there are things we can do indoors to get off the couch. We spend so much time on social media, watching TV, or streaming movies, and while all of that is fine in moderation, one of the most effective ways to avoid getting stuck in triggering moments is to move your body in whatever way you can. So, build that into your lifestyle. Walk a little farther than you planned. Set aside time for a dance class or another physical activity. It doesn’t even have to be exercise-related—it could be art, music, or anything that gets you out of your head and back into your physical senses. What can you do? What can you see? What can you feel? Shifting your focus to how you experience the world rather than how the world experiences you is powerful. This also gets you into a flow state, which is well-documented in psychology as something that enhances life and skills in every possible way. A flow state is when you’re so engaged in an activity that you lose self-consciousness—you’re fully immersed, thinking about nothing else. This can even be meditative and healing, helping people break free from the self-objectification that so many of us are used to. So, I’d seriously recommend finding whatever way you can to engage in enjoyable physical activities—especially activities that don’t involve consuming images of other people or listening to conversations about appearance.
Encouraging a Healthy Self-Concept: The Power of Movement and Flow

 

[Tania] Yeah, I think most people have hopefully experienced a flow state at some point. For me, it’s swimming. It’s interesting because I don’t think about objectification, but when I swim, I just lose my sense of time and place—I’m just there. But as we get older, those moments become fewer and farther between. Giving that experience to a 13-year-old—helping her find that space—could be incredibly powerful.

 

[Lexie] Yes, absolutely. Another powerful point, which Lindsay shares in our book, is that we need to prove ourselves wrong—we need to prove our worst fears wrong. Especially for a 13-year-old girl, looking back, we all remember the fear and anxiety that swirled in our minds when walking into school, participating in PE, or giving a class presentation. We imagine an audience watching us at all times—that’s part of puberty. On top of that, we grow up learning to view our bodies as projects, as parts in need of fixing, which only reinforces the idea that we are constantly being watched and judged. That imagined audience can feel terrifying—we picture the worst thing someone could think about us and regulate ourselves accordingly. We avoid getting sweaty in PE, think we can’t go to the gym or take a walk because we don’t have the right outfit, or skip an event because of acne. We hold ourselves back, isolate ourselves, and believe that to feel good, we must look good. But what does “looking good” even mean? It’s entirely subjective, yet we control ourselves based on unattainable ideals. Instead, we need to prove ourselves wrong. When fear arises—when she doesn’t want to go to school because her favorite outfit is in the wash or someone made a mean comment—we encourage her to get dressed, push through, and show up anyway. And we should do the same. Swim on your family vacation, take the family photos, and don’t untag yourself in a picture just because you don’t like it. If you gain weight and your doctor comments on it, don’t immediately punish yourself with over-exercise and under-eating—that only harms your metabolism and doesn’t actually improve your health. The way to prove your worst fears wrong is to do the thing anyway. Moving, doing, and being releases endorphins. Engaging with people prevents isolation. So don’t sit out on activities, events, or opportunities, thinking, “Once I lose weight or fix this, then I’ll feel good.” That mindset keeps us stuck, scrolling on our phones, missing out on life. No—prove yourself wrong. Do the thing anyway. Wear the outfit anyway. Say what you need to say, attend the event, volunteer. In doing so, you reclaim yourself, reconnect with your body, and realize that those anxious fears don’t have to control you.

 

[Lindsay] I would say, tell your kids about those moments too—times when you faced your fears, came out better, or learned a valuable lesson. Maybe it was difficult, maybe it wasn’t the best day of your life, but you survived it, and it became easier the next time because you tried this time. I would tell the story of me swimming—the day Lexie’s oldest daughter, Logan, starts feeling self-conscious about her body or not wanting to swim, I would share my own experience. I was a competitive swimmer growing up, but by the time I reached high school at 15, just past puberty, I became too embarrassed. When boys joined my high school PE swimming class, I was so self-conscious about them seeing me in a swimsuit that I quit. I pretended I didn’t care about swimming and spent nearly seven years refusing to swim. After college, on a beautiful summer day, my boyfriend and friends invited me to go swimming and cliff jumping at a reservoir. I wanted to go so badly, but I defaulted to my usual coping mechanism—hiding and fixing. I made an excuse, said I was too busy, and mentally planned to starve myself for weeks until I felt “qualified” to go next time. But something shifted when my friends kept pushing, insisting that I wasn’t too busy, that I could go. Their persistence forced me to reflect, and I realized my excuses didn’t even hold up to myself. It was all just fear—fear of body shame, fear of what they would think, fear that my boyfriend wouldn’t find me attractive. I saw this as an opportunity to push back and simply test it, knowing I would survive one way or another. So, I went swimming that day for the first time in years, and it became one of the most transformative experiences of my life. The feeling of weightlessness, the freedom of being in my body, fully immersed in the water—it was incredible. I felt capable and strong, and I realized I was still a swimmer. That moment changed me. At 21 years old, I learned that I could push back against my worst fears about what people would think of me in a swimsuit. And by doing so, I built resilience against that fear. That same fear has confronted me a million times since, and it still does, but because I learned I could push through it and survive, I have continued making the same choice—to go, to do the thing. And every time, it has gotten easier. Now, I don’t even think twice—if someone invites me to swim, I go. If I’m on a beach vacation, I get in the water instead of hiding under a towel or umbrella. I tell this story all the time—it’s in our book—because it represents a moment of building body image resilience by simply pushing back against fear and testing it for yourself. Nine times out of ten, you’ll find that not only is it not as bad as you thought, but it’s actually much better, and you are better for it. We’ve received countless messages from people sharing their own experiences of doing things despite their self-consciousness—despite not having the “right” clothes, despite gaining weight. And through those experiences, they’ve opened doors to new relationships, friendships, skills, and passions. It’s so empowering to just try. And for a 13-year-old girl riddled with fears about what will happen if she doesn’t align with these ideals, help her see that she can test it out for herself. It’s scary—yes, validate her fears—but help her discover that not fitting into unrealistic standards isn’t as devastating as she thinks. She’ll be okay.

 

[Tania] Yeah, you know, I think everyone listening can relate and recall a time when they chose to sit out. Even for me, when I look back at those moments, I wonder, “Why did I do that? Who was I even so worried about?” It’s often just some person at a beach—a beach I’ll probably never visit again.

 

[Lindsay] Yeah, exactly. Why did I care? Why do we worry about strangers?

 

[Lexie] Yeah, strangers on the street? They don’t even know your name. They’ll never think about you again. I always ask myself, “What is the worst that could happen?” Let’s say you go on vacation, and you overhear someone making a comment about your body. Okay, so what? You hear it, and then you continue living. It has nothing to do with you. Sometimes, though, it’s not strangers—it’s people you love who make hurtful comments. That happens so often, especially with well-meaning parents or caretakers who say things like, “You’ve gained a little weight,” or “You’d look better with some makeup,” or “Why don’t you wear something more flattering for your shape?” We’ve all heard these things, and they don’t help. They hurt. But when your child experiences this—hopefully not from you—you want them to be able to open up and be honest about what they’re going through. Maybe it’s something a bully at school said, a comment from a friend, or even something they saw online. Whatever it is, you can help them understand that even their worst fears don’t have to break them. So, how will they respond? This is their wave of disruption—what will they do now? Will they isolate themselves and punish themselves over something that isn’t even their problem? If someone says something negative about their body, that says more about the other person than it does about them. It reflects how that person was raised, what they see, how they feel about themselves, and the insecurities they are projecting onto others. When we can help people realize that we are all more than just our bodies—and that everyone is navigating a world that can be painful—we empower them. Even if they face their worst fears, whether through criticism or judgment, they don’t have to let it control them. Yes, it can hurt. And we should acknowledge that. We’ve all heard painful things—often from our own inner voices when we see a picture of ourselves or catch our reflection. But when we learn that we are more than just our appearance, and we start to navigate life with compassion, we can face objectification and societal pressures without letting them define us. Life will always present challenges—waves of disruption that knock us over. But we will get back up. Every time. So, how will you do it today? What’s your plan? Instead of falling into old, harmful coping mechanisms, we can build body image resilience, just like Lindsay said. It’s like flexing a muscle—over time, the response becomes easier. Rising with resilience becomes instinctual instead of sinking into shame, hiding, fixing, or punishing ourselves. Instead, we recognize the pain and rise up in the face of it. We remind ourselves, “This has nothing to do with me. This is a problem with society, and I refuse to be part of it. I’m going to rebel against it.” How can you prioritize yourself—your feelings, your well-being—over how others perceive you? That shift in mindset leads to a much happier way of living. And we know this personally. We experience it every day.

 

[Tania] I think this is such a beautiful place for us to wrap up. I could talk to you for another hour or two! Quick question about Beauty Redefined—could you tell everyone a little more about it? We touched on your book, which is absolutely beautiful, and the workbook that Lindsay showed us. But what exactly is Beauty Redefined? What are you doing through it?

 

[Lindsay] Beauty Redefined is essentially our public-facing work that we started during grad school. We created a visual presentation as part of our co-authored master’s project, where we aimed to bring a new approach to body image to the public. From there, we began sharing bits and pieces of that work through Beauty Redefined and eventually turned it into a nonprofit. Through Beauty Redefined, we continue to do speaking engagements and offer an online course, which we’ve shared with various groups, including classrooms and kids. We also provide our workbook to groups in need, including underprivileged and underrepresented communities. This is how we spread our message of positive body image and body image resilience. We’ve also used social media extensively to share these messages—though, in the past couple of years, we’ve taken a giant step back after doing it every day for nearly a decade. It’s been a really nice break, and we highly recommend it to others as well. But beyond social media, we continue to do everything we can to promote Beauty Redefined and help people build resilience in their body image.

 

[Tania] Lindsay and Lexie, thank you for the incredible work you do. I have two little girls myself, and I can relate to everything you’ve shared. I truly appreciate this mom’s question—it resonates so deeply with me. As a mother, I understand her concerns, and I’m so grateful to have your expertise here. It’s just amazing. Thank you.

 

[Lexie] Thank you! Thank you for having us and for the work you do. It’s so important.

 

[Lindsay] Thanks, Tania.